Shebang: But does democracy just mean two way communication between people and Governments, politicians? What I experience on the web is that a Democratising process is taking place which ignores the politicians. The Cynicism that I have encountered all my life, and indeed on the web, is so Extreme. Quite a few people feel that to talk to politicians, or indeed to Have anything to do with them, simply encourages them. And they also are not The people who get things done. For all sorts of reasons we should not Bother with them.
Ann Macintosh: I think it's important to get democracy working at a local level. So you get citizen-to-citizen communication. So it's not just the two-way communication Between government and citizen, it's citizen to citizen. If you think about It, at the beginning I was talking about being a good citizen, and what it is.
Shebang: Yes.
Ann Macintosh: In the States, for instance, there is a pioneering site, in Minnesota. They Have an e-democracy website and on it they're really trying to build up an e-network of citizen-to-citizen communication. What affects the citizen in the local environment. To get people motivated and interested in democracy again, you really need to start at the local level. Is their rubbish being collected -
Shebang: Yes, I know, I agree with you, but I have friends with whom I correspond And 'chat' via the internet in China
Ann Macintosh: Yes
Shebang: In parts of Africa, in Russia, Chile, places where to be perfectly honest, They don't have or haven't always had the highest standards of democracy. The notion of 'local' does change somewhat in the context of the internet. I Am here and they're there, but somehow as I type and read using my local Computer - because the communication is quick - these people seem near to Me in space as well as time. Isn't it a force for democracy, that we can Talk to each other so quickly and efficiently and about all subjects. Freely.
Ann Macintosh: That is important to me. If you see something happening in the U.S. or Europe you can look at that model and see if you can take it across to other Countries where democracy is still developing.
Shebang: What's the best bit about your work. What are the triumphs, or has simply Given you satisfaction.
Ann Macintosh: They've been successes in the United Kingdom rather than wider successes. But having said that I was talking in the Swedish parliament at this Conference about engaging 11-18 year olds to become good citizens. And now In Sweden they are hoping to adopt some of our ideas, and the speaker from The Polish parliament - she was saying, 'We've written it all down, we're Going to go back and see if we can copy what you're doing and use it in Poland.' So I feel I have got a good success story and now I am spreading The story and if we can get similar systems in Poland and Czechoslovakia and Sweden, that's great. This keep me going.
Shebang: Dreams for the future? Things that you hope are going to happen? For the politicians in power to come to me and say, 'You're doing a great Job! and can we join you? And can we actually be part of this process?"
Shebang: Really? Oh I see - Which is more important the politicians coming to you or The people coming to you and saying you're doing a great job?
Ann Macintosh: Well, people are coming
Shebang: Oh right, they are already -
Ann Macintosh: The people are coming. yes
Shebang: So your dream is that the politicians actually say -
Ann Macintosh: Yes We need this. I don't expect all of them but it would be good if just a Few politicians would say, 'Could we actually be part of what you're doing Here?'
Shebang: So do you think that e-democracy will be indispensable, and that it will Transform democracy?
Ann Macintosh: It's not the only way democracy is delivered. O.K. It's a new way of doing It. And it's a new way that is exciting individuals, and if it's giving a New service and motivating them that's great. It is here to stay. But what Happens after that, I don't know. If you look at what's happening on Government portals; they're saying you can get access to all government Services. In the United Kingdom, UK Online announced recently that the Government services will include e-democracy services. So they are now Starting to say, O.K., a government service is not just about how you get Benefits, how you get onto the electoral register, it's about e-democracy as Well. It's about having your say. So, yes, they're here to stay. And I see That sort of model of e-democracy, of e-lobbying, of e-consultations going On to other government portals throughout the world.
Shebang: We started about your wanting to be a politician if you could debate and if You could change the world. Apart from the e-democracy work that you are Doing, say the things that you need changing in the world. [VERY LOUD LAUGHTER FROM PERSON LISTENING IN] It's not that difficult you're a Scot. You've talked about the environment.
Ann Macintosh: Sustainable environment. Democracy [PAUSES]
Shebang: Yes. You've talked about social exclusion. [[SLIGHT PAUSE]
Ann Macintosh: I'm actually really interested in helping young people all over the world Understand what being a citizen is, so that they are really good Next-generation politicians. I mean if you can educate the young people, Then you're going to get good politicians in the future. And I think if you Wanted an answer that's what I want
Shebang: And that's what you're doing, helping to achieve that.
Ann Macintosh: Yes
Shebang: I mean you could hardly be doing this more effectively even if you were just Being a teacher teaching this to young people
Ann Macintosh: No, in any case you couldn't teach something like this, it's through Experience that they come to understand
Shebang: Given what you want to do to change the world, it does seem as if you are in The perfect job
Ann Macintosh: Everybody wants to change the world, if you can just do one bit - Yes of course. First of all, lots of people couldn't care about changing the World, and secondly not everyone is in a job in which they can be effective.
Ann Macintosh: Everybody's doing a valuable job -
Shebang: Well are they? You're doing
Ann Macintosh: I am doing an interesting job. I am actually fascinated by what I do. I'm Lucky
Shebang: Yes. That's what I am saying. It seems to me that you're doing something that you actually believe in. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth I promise.
Ann Macintosh: I suppose I am a naïve person and I believe that yes. [LAUGHTER]
Shebang: Thank you very much, I'll transcribe this and edit it and you - [LAUGHTER] Tell me what you're worried about
Ann Macintosh: I'm worried about what you're going to say about what I said about Politicians because they'll never come to me then.
Shebang: You will see this before it goes out. And you are half-worried that I am mocking you because you are bright-eyed and enthusiastic about your job.
Ann Macintosh: I really love my job [LAUGHTER] I mean I don't consider it a job. I get up in the morning and I don't think I've got to go and work. I am living it and it's a great area and I've been really luck that I've got that And you are getting support. People are responding to what you're doing.
Shebang: You have had emails from round the world: Catalonia, Bosnia, South America, Kenya, Tanzania. Just incredible.
Ann Macintosh: From all around. People in all these countries all around the world are Wanting to find out more about e-democracy. They see what we're doing with e-democracy and what can it do for them. Can it do the same for them.
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