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you? Enrique: Oh you bet your ass! My my parents were very sad because I had four tickets and I didn't invite my family because I brought 3 children from East Baltimore with me and I brought my room-mate to keep an eye on ‘em while I was getting my degree. I can send you the video if you want [Small chuckle]. It was strange, I mean it was quite nice, because I didn't have it planned you know. I just went up there and wanted to tell ‘em about what I was thinking. That its our responsibility to teach people. That's why we are here. Jack: Yeah. Enrique: Ah. Jack: Let's walk, and you can talk as you go. Enrique: Yeah. Jack: And how old were the kids? Enrique: Ah, they were about 9 and 10 and 11. Jack: But you wouldn’t mind a bit of media attention. I mean we’re recording this, and you are very much at ease in front of a mike or a camera Enrique: [Laughs] Its a, I mean. Jack: Would you like that? Enrique: If I could get more people and, you know, if I could save peoples lives it would be fine, yeah. I mean without sounding melodramatic; these people - my teachers and my instructors -they saved my life. You know in a certain way they gave me a life...that I wouldn't have had otherwise. And it’s not like I feel I have a duty or an obligation. But it’s... That must be the best feeling in the world. Jack: Absolutely. O.K. But here you are devoting your time to this corner of science now. What's the fascination with this particular thing? With proteins; with these weird little things in cells? What's the big deal? Enrique: I don't know if it’s these little things. I don't know if its just perchance, you know. I think it’s more the people that were doing it, ‘cause I originally started doing botany. And then I wanted to measure something so I went to the chemistry department and did physical chemistry. I was attracted to people more than science. Jack: So? Enrique: I could have easily been studying plants still if I'd met a cool botanist. (Laughs) Jack: Really? Enrique: Sure that's what I started first. Jack: What was your thesis about? Enrique: My Ph.D. was on biochemistry primarily. It didn’t have to do with a motor protein, but it was it had to do with motility — so I was dealing with things related to movement. And then I stayed sort of in this ‘how do things move’ field, but I switched systems. That is, I'm interested in true motors now. Jack: So now you are interested in something, and it's not just because of a tutor. Enrique: Right! Well I mean its it was like ‘here's a piece of cake’, you know, ‘do you like it?’ ‘Yes, l like it’. And you wouldn't know that you like strawberry rhubarb pie if Id never gave you a piece of strawberry rhubarb pie. And you might still like chocolate cheesecake but you like strawberry rhubarb pie. I mean, I could - I think I could easily have been doing anything. Jack: Yeah, yeah. Enrique: But I'd probably still be doing the same, the big picture would still be the same, my goals would still be the same Jack: Which are? Enrique: Which are - I guess there would be more than one- but I would say that my most important goal is to try to save peoples’ lives. And I think the only way I can do that is to change them. I don't want to be a medical doctor. If I could do anything I would get people with absolutely no future involved in science. Jack: Let me get this straight. I think that's wonderful. But what about research? Is that - Enrique: Oh! No! That of course That's beautiful too. Jack: Right - but you haven't talked about it. Is there anything you want to do in research? Enrique: Id like to be a professor, and the dilemma in my mind now is do I want to be a teacher, or do I want to be a scientist? Jack: You want to be both? Enrique: And I want to be - I want to be both, exactly. Jack: Well if you let what you have said on this tape stand, and let it be published, maybe it will count as a publication Enrique: Okay. Jack: For teachers publications can mean more money Enrique: Okay. That sounds good, money. [Chuckling] You know the other dilemma is money of course. I’ve never had it, and it would be nice to have some. [Laughs again] Jack: I’m sure you’ll be O.K. Talk about the research though. You've done some fantastic work, I believe — isn’t that so? You’re about to publish a paper, apparently? Enrique: Yeah. I do pretty well with publications. We do a lot. I love it. I mean I love working out the details. You know. One example comes to mind. My girlfriend would say this is so funny; she would just love to watch me interact with children. One time I was in Kentucky with her and I brought some capers and there were these -I don't know - these five or six kids there, and they had never seen a caper before. So I went into about a 15 minute story of what a caper is, and these kids were just standing there like that [Big blank look of curiosity in face]. And science is no different than that little flower bud. There's so much beauty in how things are, and function and exist, whether it’s a flower, whether it’s a protein or a cell or a person. Understanding its behaviour tells you about the big picture. Jack: Can you remember now what you actually said to them? Enrique: No! I couldn't remember now, it sort of is just spontaneous, and there’s the interaction. They ask questions. I can see the look on their face. I can see if they can understand. I have to see that they are interested. Jack: You can convey the excitement to others. Tell us about the private excitement, when it’s just you and what you are exploring. What’s the big deal? Enrique: Okay, I'll tell you the big deal. I think, at least for me it’s that you can you can tell what's going to happen. Scientifically you can make a prediction, and you can know what’ll happen. It’s a cryptic sense of control is what it is. If you understand how this molecule will behave you'll be able to make a prediction when anything changes. And that is the basis of life in general. I mean life is nothing but the small things interacting on a microscopic scale to give you microscopic structures and microscopic behaviours. The behaviour of people, that’s probably something a little more complicated. But what I'm concerned with is how does this thing move on like one thousandth of a second, okay? And it will stay a certain way. But if I change anything then I can tell you exactly what's going to happen. And that's a sense of power; and knowledge is power, but it also gives you a sense it’s also a sense of enlightenment: I understand what's happening here. And maybe I don't, because I don't understand people and I don't even understand myself which might be obvious. That’s why you tell me these people around me think this and I don't see it. You tell me ‘These people accept you and they love you,’ and I don't see it. And I think this maybe just simply because I'm accustomed to seeing everything as an outsider, And I feel that I don't understand anything. I just want more and more information. Jack: So there's a kind of life that is in biology in which you can know what's going to happen. Enrique: I know what's going to happen. There's a control. Jack: There's your life. And there's that life. Enrique: That's right. And they're two different ones as I was telling you earlier, so this one, this one is predictable. Once you understand it, you make observations, you can assign numbers you can assign something, you know that's going to happen and there's control, there's order, there's consistency. And then the rest of me I don't understand. [Laughs] It’s irrational, erratic. There is no order and there is no control. I don't know what I'm gonna be doing. Some people who know you might say "you don't know what he's going to say you don't know what he's going to do". But when it comes to my work, it's easy to predict what I will do. It will be in very fine detail, it will be well defined and it will be rigorously controlled. Jack: I have a prediction. You will be an important scientist and a great teacher. Enrique: I hope so. That's what I'm working for. [Laughing] Thank you.
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